Knox Williams

Absolutely. Well, yeah, thank you for for chatting with me.

American suppressor Association was formed in 2011, largely because nobody else was doing it. Nobody else was out there advocating on behalf of the suppressor community to try and legalize suppressors across the country and deregulate them at the federal level.

At the time, I'd been working at a suppressor manufacturer called Advanced Armament Corporation (AAC). And in that era, they were the top dog when it came to suppressors. They were really the ones driving the innovation both on product development side as well as on the marketing of suppressors as something that, you know, really enhances the shooting experience.

So in a lot of ways, they helped create the marketplace in general, and bring our small segment of the firearms industry into the mainstream.

In 2011, when we were really pursuing the formation of the suppressor Association, we went and approached the National Rifle Association and NSSF and said, ‘Hey, help us advocate for this stuff.’

At the time I lived in Georgia -and I still do- and it was illegal to hunt with a suppressor in our state. I said, I want to change that law. You had companies like Gemtec out on the Pacific Northwest that were working on some pro suppressor legislation out there, specifically related to Washington State.

They had a weird provision where you could own a suppressor, but it was a crime to put the suppressor on and shoot with it. So they were working on getting rid of that.

And we were kind of tracking their efforts.

So we approached the NRA and NSSF. They said, ‘Hey, guys, this is too extreme. You know, we need to focus on more mainstream kind of guns.’

We said, that's great, you can do that. We're going to start our own Association.

And we did.

One of the first things that we did was really work to lobby the NRA to get them on our side and supportive. To their credit, they came around very quickly on that. They have been over the past 12 years, one of our most effective allies and in the fight for suppressor reform.

But yeah, you know, we we started because we love suppressors. We think everybody should be able to buy a suppressor without a wait time, without a tax stamp out, or registration.

They should be able to use it when they are at the range when they're defending their home when they're out hunting, doing whatever, you know, lawful shooting activity that they're doing.

And we've had a ton of fun with it over the years.

Knox Williams

That is exactly right. A couple of interesting side notes on that. When suppressors were originally invented the gentleman that filed the first patent for them- it was approved in 1909 - was named Hiram Percy Maxim.

Most people are familiar with Hiram Maxim, his father, who invented the machine gun.

So he comes from a long line of people that really changed not just the firearms world, but also the course of human history. He was a guy who was just a prolific inventor.

He was also one of the early inventors of the automobile. I believe that he was likely the first person to ever drive a car in the state of Connecticut. He was tinkering with combustible engines around the same times that that guys like, you know, Daimler and some of the other inventors of the automobile were doing it.

They were all operating in a vacuum, right? They didn't have the internet back then. Information wasn't moving as quickly as it does today where you can pull something out of your pocket and look up any information in the world that you want.

A lot of these guys didn't have a clue that other people were doing the same things.

And he was somebody who, according to his book, Horseless Carriage Days - a very interesting read - wanted to be able to get to his girlfriend's house. I don't remember 20 miles away or something without breaking a sweat.

So he put an engine on a on a bike. He made a motorcycle -and nearly killed himself flying down a hill, because he forgot to put on brakes.

And then, you know, move that into something a little bit safer, and a four wheeled automobile.

But what are combustible engines? They're very loud.

What are guns? They're very loud.

This guy did not like loud noises.

So one of the things that he invented was the firearm suppressor, which he called the silent firearm in his original patent.

One of the other inventions that he made was the automobile muffler.

And interestingly, he made an entire business - Maxim Silencer Company - off of making suppressors for firearms, and then later shifting that focus to everything from automobile mufflers to industrial mufflers. He was putting in things that muffle the noise of HVAC systems, major buildings, boats, submarines, you name it.

If it made a noise, he was finding a way to make it quieter.

Knox Williams

Absolutely, certainly in a lot of European countries.It's interesting, because that's something that we've been looking into to try and get a bit of specificity on it. We know that in a lot of European countries, guns are extremely heavily regulated.

Suppressors are far easier to get.

Not to go counter to the argument that we often make, but every European countries is a little bit different in the way that their laws regulations apply. It's very similar to like, you know, our federal system where every state is a little bit different.

There’s one big difference: of those laws and regulations are in different languages, based on where they are.

So for us getting an accurate depiction of where suppressors are regulated and how they're regulated, each country is a bit difficult.

That's something that we're actively working on trying to fix.

But you look at places like Norway, you can walk in - you or I could travel to Norway tomorrow- walk into a gun store, buy a suppressor and walk out.

That's what we think that it should be like. This isn’t something that you can put a bullet in and shoot; there’s nothing dangerous about a suppressor.

It is, in fact, a safety device that helps mitigate the noise of a firearm.

Anybody that's been around a gunshot knows they're loud.

Any scientist is looked at the actual sound signature of a firearm knows that without proper hearing protection it's dangerous.

There's no debate about that - the scientists at CDC acknowledges that, NIOSH acknowledges that, the National Hearing Conservation Association acknowledged that guns are simply too loud. Reducing that noise to a more manageable level is -in large part- why so many European countries with socialized medicine, specifically after the advent of the EU, have liberalized their laws on suppressors.

Knox Williams

Absolutely. Yep. And that's, that's something that we would love to model our, our framework off of. Now, granted, we don't want people to have to use a suppressor. We think, though, that everybody should have the ability to if they choose.

Knox Williams

That's a that's a really interesting question. It really depends on the particular issue that we're working.

If it is at a state level, we're trying to legalize the ownership and possession of suppressors from law abiding citizens. Look at places like Iowa, Minnesota, Vermont… we were successful in all those three states over the years, and we've introduced and pushed legislation in the eight remaining states where they're prohibited.

There, the number one misconception is, hey, why would we legalize silencers? You know, nobody's gonna be able to hear conflict. It's going to make things, you know, active shooters, and these sorts of things more dangerous.

And you and I both know that that couldn't be further from the truth.

Knox Williams

Sometimes it's, you know, unbridled ignorance. Sometimes it's willful ignorance.

And sometimes it's just downright intentional misinformation.

I think 10 years ago, when we started out, a lot of it was just general ignorance.

People hadn't been around suppressed gunshots, they had no idea there weren't really many very good sources, where you could corroborate an idea. It was all supposition.

Today, though, I really genuinely believe that anybody that's parroting those talking points, is doing so intentionally.

You know, people that have said, like, Oh, I've seen this in the movies, I know what it's like. And their portrayal from Hollywood couldn't be further from the truth.

Knox Williams

It's incredibly frustrating. That's really where our job comes into play. It's largely breaking down those misconceptions, and showing people the truth and exposing the lies for what they are.

We've got nothing to hide. The science is on our side. The data is on our side. And the arguments and logic are on our side.

Which is why the first thing that we do when we're working on an issue is invite people out to the range. We say, hey, you know, come join us on the range.

We won't have a policy discussion until after we shoot so that you can .

We're going to take a half dozen or so guns and we're going to shoot them unsuppressed. Then we're going to put a suppressor on and we're going to shoot them with a suppressor.

Only after you've heard it directly, when you can draw your own conclusions based on that, will we engage in policy discussion.

The problem is fewer and fewer people that oppose suppressors in principle are willing to come out these days. Again, that ties into willful ignorance and just a wanton disregard for for the truth.

Knox Williams

That's a good question. I hope not. I hope not. But I think that we're approaching that point for sure. I think that we might be at a bit of a crossroads at the moment.

I'd like to think that we as a society can pull ourselves out of that, and get back to a place where we can break free from kind of the constraints that politics has placed everybody in over the past few years, where you're either 100% with us on every single issue or you're 100% against us.

That's just not how the healthy political system functions.

I hope for all of our sakes that that's not the case. At a minimum, I hope we can pull ourselves out of that hole and get back to a healthier state.

Knox Williams

So the Hearing Protection Act, I'm guessing that's what you're referring to….That was a bill that we helped write with National Rifle Association and in 2015, with Representative Matt Salmon’s office. That bill first got introduced in October of 2015.

And it has been reintroduced in every subsequent Congress.

Matt retired after that Congress. It's been picked up by Jeff Duncan from South Carolina in the House, and Senator Crapo on the Senate side. Federal legislation often moves at a glacial pace.

In 2016, when Trump was elected, we were obviously very bullish on our potential to get that legislation through.. Republicans had a majority in the House. They had majority in the Senate. They had the White House. It was a trifecta.

When we originally introduced the legislation, we thought this is going to be a multi year play. We're going to introduce it now and get that educational foundation built up amongst the members - so that when the stars align politically, we're able to get this across the finish line.

We had no idea that those stars would seemingly align that quickly.

So we were pretty excited about it. And we got it written into the share Act, which was the Sportsman's hunting and fishing outdoor. I forget what the acronym was, but it was the Congressional Sportsmen’s Foundation’s omnibus bill with a whole bunch of pro gun and pro, you know, hunting and shooting and fishing provisions.

That passed out of committee and, and we're feeling pretty great. After passing out of committee, Speaker Ryan at the time, indicated that, hey, we're gonna get this onto the House floor in the coming days. You know, might be Tuesday might be Wednesday might be Thursday, but one of the days, you know, in the coming weeks, we're gonna get this thing up.

And in that time between the shooting in Las Vegas happened. It was a horrific event. Suppressors weren’t used in that shooting…but before the bodies were even cold, Hillary Clinton was out there tweeting, ‘imagine how much worse it would have been with silencers’- even though they would have had absolutely no impact on it.

And for whatever reason, that just derailed everything.No pro-gun legislation that was really moved in that Congress after that event.

We were dejected, to say the least. It was a sad day in American history. And it was frustrating to see years and years of work, just go right down the tube as a direct result.

We've continued to work on that legislation in every Congress since, and we're doing so again. We’re still building that educational foundation, so that when we have another real opportunity to get across the finish line and signed by a president, we’re not scrambling to start again at square one. We’ve got it teed up and ready to go.

On the Senate side, I know that we've got more Senate co sponsors right now than we have in any other Congress, so we're feeling pretty good about. And we haven't even been actively pushing lately. In the coming months, we will be spending quite a bit of time on Capitol Hill.. educating new members and trying to get more co sponsors and, and beef that up.

But it's a multi year play at this point.

You know, even if, you know, pro-gun factions were to take control of both chambers and a Republican were to win the White House, we’re still gonna have to clear the 60 vote hurdle in the Senate, which is no short order. That’s going to take a lot of maneuvering.

But we firmly believe that suppressors should be deregulated at the federal level. And we can't be dejected by the mountain that stands in front of us. It's just one foot in front of the other. As long as we keep moving someday, I truly believe we'll get there.

Knox Williams

That's a fantastic question. The first thing that you can do is join the American Suppressor Association. You know, we're a 501 C-6 membership organization.

We represent the industry, but we also represent consumers. Memberships that start at 35 bucks a year. That money goes towards keeping the lights, on keeping us on the road, getting us out there and, you know front of state legislatures to push pro suppressor advocacy.

It also to helps defend suppressors when they come under attack, like they have in Virginia; like they did this year in New Mexico; in Washington State and Colorado. Like they will continue to be under attack in future state sessions. Every dollar, every penny that we raise, really does tremendously help.

We've got a 501 C3 foundation as well, which can accept tax deductible donations.

And through the ASA Foundation, we're actually supporting a lawsuit in the state of Illinois, along with Silencer Shop. The suit’s challenging the ban on suppressors in the state of Illinois.

Based on the new current standard of review, we're saying that, hey, you can't do that it's unconstitutional - these are protected by the Second Amendment.

We're very excited about the prospect of that - which could legalize suppressors in Illinois.

We plan on filing in multiple other states. If we're successful with those lawsuits suppressors will become 50 state legal - that includes New York, California, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, all the states where they're currently prohibited, and no state would be able to ever ban suppressors.

So the protection that that would give to to our community would be an absolute paradigm shift. But those are time intensive and very resource intensive. Any any help that we can get really does amplify our efforts.

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